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9/6/2017 1:26:57 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

ludlowlowell
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The only evidence that atheists have for their fervent belief that God does not exist is the following: "I have never seen God, therefore He must not exist."

That's awfully flimsy evidence.




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9/6/2017 1:50:06 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

xman379
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Agnosticism is probably the best way to go.

9/6/2017 2:28:31 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 
lordclarence
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
59, joined Mar. 2013


Atheism is an absence of belief or a disbelief in God/s. It doesn't need any evidence.

9/6/2017 2:37:08 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

xman379
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Quote from lordclarence:
Atheism is an absence of belief or a disbelief in God/s. It doesn't need any evidence.


I'm guessing he means there's flimsy evidence to support the assertion that there is no god, which is made by some atheists.

9/6/2017 4:33:06 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 
lordclarence
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
59, joined Mar. 2013


The burden of proof rests on the person proposing that something exists. Atheists are under no obligation to refute flimsy claims.

9/6/2017 9:22:07 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 
Yasureoktoo
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (23,136)
Seattle, WA
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
The only evidence that atheists have for their fervent belief that God does not exist is the following: "I have never seen God, therefore He must not exist."

That's awfully flimsy evidence.


Lud. Atheism does not require evidence, it does not claim anything.

However claiming a magical God, does require evidence.

9/6/2017 10:10:22 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

ludlowlowell
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The agnostic is at least honest enough to say he doesn't know. The atheist absolutely insists that there is no God, solely because God os not visible.

9/7/2017 12:56:57 AMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 
lordclarence
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
59, joined Mar. 2013


.
Quote from ludlowlowell:
The agnostic is at least honest enough to say he doesn't know. The atheist absolutely insists that there is no God, solely because God os not visible.

You're fibbing, as usual. Many atheists are also agnostics and don't claim to know for certain that God/s do not exist. Atheism denotes lack of belief or disbelief. Agnosticism denotes lack of knowledge. The two are compatible.

9/7/2017 4:04:59 AMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

sail_dancer
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,635)
Saint Petersburg, FL
69, joined Apr. 2010


Quote from Yasureoktoo:
Lud. Atheism does not require evidence, it does not claim anything.

However claiming a magical God, does require evidence.


Exactly!



Peace

9/7/2017 4:06:44 AMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

sail_dancer
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,635)
Saint Petersburg, FL
69, joined Apr. 2010


Quote from lordclarence:
.
Quote from ludlowlowell:
The agnostic is at least honest enough to say he doesn't know. The atheist absolutely insists that there is no God, solely because God os not visible.

You're fibbing, as usual. Many atheists are also agnostics and don't claim to know for certain that God/s do not exist. Atheism denotes lack of belief or disbelief. Agnosticism denotes lack of knowledge. The two are compatible.


I agree!



Peace

9/7/2017 11:39:04 AMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,366)
Jacksonville, FL
77, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from lordclarence:
The burden of proof rests on the person proposing that something exists. Atheists are under no obligation to refute flimsy claims.

What's flimsy about asserting the universe did not create itself? What's flimsy about asserting you can't have an affect without a cause? What's flimsy about asserting the one eternal and uncaused reality is a omnipresent and benevolent Creator?

9/7/2017 11:41:36 AMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

ludlowlowell
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I think you guys have your definitions mixed up. My Webster's dictionary defines "atheism" as "the belief that there is no God", and "atheist" as "a person who believed that there is no God: distinguished from agnostic".

9/7/2017 2:23:12 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 
Yasureoktoo
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (23,136)
Seattle, WA
62, joined Dec. 2014


Quote from ludlowlowell:
I think you guys have your definitions mixed up. My Webster's dictionary defines "atheism" as "the belief that there is no God", and "atheist" as "a person who believed that there is no God: distinguished from agnostic".


I "believe" I will stop for the next "stop' sign, but I can assure you, I will not pray to it.

9/7/2017 2:24:20 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 
Yasureoktoo
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (23,136)
Seattle, WA
62, joined Dec. 2014


Quote from ludlowlowell:
I think you guys have your definitions mixed up. My Webster's dictionary defines "atheism" as "the belief that there is no God", and "atheist" as "a person who believed that there is no God: distinguished from agnostic".


"Atheism", as a word, would not even exist, if people did not invent Gods.

9/7/2017 3:05:27 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 
cupocheer
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (275,931)
Assumption, IL
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
The only evidence that atheists have for their fervent belief that God does not exist is the following: "I have never seen God, therefore He must not exist."

That's awfully flimsy evidence.




This is the same reason atheists use that GOD doesn't exist.

9/7/2017 3:55:47 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 
lordclarence
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
59, joined Mar. 2013


.
Quote from kb2222:
What's flimsy about asserting the universe did not create itself?

Whoever says the universe did create itself? Or that it has a self as such? And why do theists see a pre-existent and totally self-sufficient (without a universe to live in) magic man as a good answer to this hypothetical question?

What's flimsy about asserting you can't have an affect without a cause?

What caused the magic man to exist? Is the magic man excused from causation because he's magic? If magic is true, couldn't the universe have been magicked into existence by pure magic but without the need for a wand waving magic man?

What's flimsy about asserting the one eternal and uncaused reality is a omnipresent and benevolent Creator?

If the magic man is omnipresent, why are you always saying people have to seek him out? If he has a benevolent nature, why are (in your words) religio-sceptics going to be disadvantaged in the alleged afterlife and left to stay in their graves simply for using their noggins and correctly appraising the scant evidence for a magic man and coming to the conclusion that he doesn't exist? Why is it the case that the universe appears to be generally hostile to life and benevolence is apparent only in how biological organisms like ourselves (sometimes) treat each other?

Those questions were rhetorical only. Please don't post any UB passages. I don't want to get a headache.



[Edited 9/7/2017 3:57:59 PM ]

9/7/2017 4:36:11 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 
cupocheer
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (275,931)
Assumption, IL
68, joined May. 2010


Quote from ludlowlowell:
The only evidence that atheists have for their fervent belief that God does not exist is the following: "I have never seen God, therefore He must not exist."

That's awfully flimsy evidence.


And...

This is, also, the same reason atheists use to prove they believe God does exist.

9/7/2017 8:35:34 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

rey2140
Over 1,000 Posts (1,000)
Sullivan, OH
48, joined Sep. 2013


Quote from ludlowlowell:
I think you guys have your definitions mixed up. My Webster's dictionary defines "atheism" as "the belief that there is no God", and "atheist" as "a person who believed that there is no God: distinguished from agnostic".


An agnostic holds the belief that the universe and all it contains cannot be explained, that neither a belief or disbelief of a God exists. This is way outdated thinking.
An atheist, which came from agnostic principals, believes there is no God, but the universe can be explained.

9/7/2017 8:46:42 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 
Yasureoktoo
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Seattle, WA
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Quote from rey2140:
An agnostic holds the belief that the universe and all it contains cannot be explained, that neither a belief or disbelief of a God exists. This is way outdated thinking.
An atheist, which came from agnostic principals, believes there is no God, but the universe can be explained.


Fail.

An agnostic doubts the existence of God.

An atheist denies the existence of God.

9/7/2017 8:59:48 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

athleticman39
Las Vegas, NV
42, joined Sep. 2014


An agnostic person asserts that there is no way to really know for sure that there is a " God" . An atheist says that he doesn't see any evidence of a " God" So you can hold both positions at the same time.

9/7/2017 9:08:41 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

athleticman39
Las Vegas, NV
42, joined Sep. 2014


LordClarence is absolutely spot on in his assessment

9/7/2017 9:21:33 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 
Yasureoktoo
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (23,136)
Seattle, WA
62, joined Dec. 2014


Quote from athleticman39:
An agnostic person asserts that there is no way to really know for sure that there is a " God" . An atheist says that he doesn't see any evidence of a " God" So you can hold both positions at the same time.


actually what you are doing is trying to conjure up a personal revelation, and post it as straight across the board.
Atheists and agnostics can have a variety of personal beliefs, however that is not what makes them an atheist or agnostic. I'm an atheist, but hold certain beliefs, that others may not.

My definition still stands.

9/8/2017 6:13:35 AMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

rey2140
Over 1,000 Posts (1,000)
Sullivan, OH
48, joined Sep. 2013


Quote from Yasureoktoo:
Fail.

An agnostic doubts the existence of God.

An atheist denies the existence of God.


Splitting hairs. You can use the words "doubt" and "deny" if that makes you feel good, but being that there is no evidence one way or the other, it is a system of belief.

9/8/2017 7:52:53 AMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

xman379
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Everyone here has an incorrect definition of agnostic.

An agnostic doesn't necessarily doubt the existence of god. An agnostic simply acknowledges that there is a LACK OF EVIDENCE either way. We don't say there is or isn't a god, we say we need more evidence.

9/8/2017 9:25:53 AMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 
Yasureoktoo
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (23,136)
Seattle, WA
62, joined Dec. 2014


Quote from rey2140:
Splitting hairs. You can use the words "doubt" and "deny" if that makes you feel good, but being that there is no evidence one way or the other, it is a system of belief.


As I said, "I Believe" I will stop for the next stop sign, but I can assure you, I will not pray to it.

Please explain what this supposed system consists of.

There is absolutely no system in atheism. None whatsoever. The word would not even exist if it were not for people inventing Gods.

9/8/2017 9:26:51 AMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

iyamwutiyam
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Middelfart
Denmark
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A key point here is how religious people think or more accurately how irrational and absurd their thinking is. Superstition is about ignorance and magical thinking. It's stupidity. That is why religious people never can make sense when their beliefs are examined. At best is they are agnostic meaning they don't know but hope there is a god and then pretend there is. That is a pathetic way to live.

Atheists deny nothing. They simply don't accept any god or goblin or magical being or advanced extraterrestrials because there is zero evidence for it. Well, ET isn't a theos but the same critical thinking applies to absurd claim that there are 619 planets with people on them.

God = ignorance = god of the gaps = no evidence = nothing. Believing in god is believing in nothing.

Atheists simply recognize that fact and intelligent atheists would have no reason to waste time disproving anything that simply doesn't exist with any veracity.

9/8/2017 11:36:18 AMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

xman379
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Quote from iyamwutiyam:
A key point here is how religious people think or more accurately how irrational and absurd their thinking is. Superstition is about ignorance and magical thinking. It's stupidity. That is why religious people never can make sense when their beliefs are examined. At best is they are agnostic meaning they don't know but hope there is a god and then pretend there is. That is a pathetic way to live.

Atheists deny nothing. They simply don't accept any god or goblin or magical being or advanced extraterrestrials because there is zero evidence for it. Well, ET isn't a theos but the same critical thinking applies to absurd claim that there are 619 planets with people on them.

God = ignorance = god of the gaps = no evidence = nothing. Believing in god is believing in nothing.

Atheists simply recognize that fact and intelligent atheists would have no reason to waste time disproving anything that simply doesn't exist with any veracity.


Religious people typically aren't agnostic. Agnostics demand EVIDENCE for or against the existence of god, without evidence the agnostic says MAYBE god exists and MAYBE not.

The problem with religious people is that they ACCEPT that god exists WITHOUT evidence, which is dangerous, as such acceptance is often used to "justify" behaviors that LOGICAL people who employ CRITICAL THINKING would NOT engage in.

9/8/2017 11:40:01 AMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 
Yasureoktoo
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (23,136)
Seattle, WA
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Quote from xman379:
Religious people typically aren't agnostic. Agnostics demand EVIDENCE for or against the existence of god, without evidence the agnostic says MAYBE god exists and MAYBE not.

The problem with religious people is that they ACCEPT that god exists WITHOUT evidence, which is dangerous, as such acceptance is often used to "justify" behaviors that LOGICAL people who employ CRITICAL THINKING would NOT engage in.





9/8/2017 11:45:55 AMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

iyamwutiyam
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,830)
Middelfart
Denmark
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Quote from xman379:
Religious people typically aren't agnostic. Agnostics demand EVIDENCE for or against the existence of god, without evidence the agnostic says MAYBE god exists and MAYBE not.

I'd say the more rational of the religious might be willing to admit being agnostic. I know many who say they aren't sure but go through the motions anyway. That's kind of like someone getting into huge debt hoping they'll win the lottery.

The problem with religious people is that they ACCEPT that god exists WITHOUT evidence, which is dangerous, as such acceptance is often used to "justify" behaviors that LOGICAL people who employ CRITICAL THINKING would NOT engage in.
Absolutely. To be willing to accept religious dogma without evidence requires baseless fear, guilt, ignorance and superstition. Faith peddlers are experts in brainwashing little kids who grow up damaged from emotional and other psychological trauma.



[Edited 9/8/2017 11:46:48 AM ]

9/8/2017 11:51:43 AMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,366)
Jacksonville, FL
77, joined Apr. 2011


*
Quote from lordclarence:
.
Quote from kb2222:
What's flimsy about asserting the universe did not create itself?

Whoever says the universe did create itself? Or that it has a self as such? And why do theists see a pre-existent and totally self-sufficient (without a universe to live in) magic man as a good answer to this hypothetical question?

You must have a comprehension problem for you have read a considerable portion of the UB and I assume that includes Paper 1 which reveals God as a Universal Spirit, the first source and center of all things and beings yet you sarcastically and with contempt refer to God as a "magic man." Why is that, lordclarence? And you appear to be ignorant that the Big Bang Theory does indeed postulate that the universe somehow created itself, does it not?

What's flimsy about asserting you can't have an affect without a cause?

What caused the magic man to exist? Is the magic man excused from causation because he's magic? If magic is true, couldn't the universe have been magicked into existence by pure magic but without the need for a wand waving magic man?

More contemptuous evasive sarcastic comments which do not answer the question asked. God is not a "wand waving magic man" and since you have read a good portion of the UB you have no good reason to keep asserting this foolishness.

What's flimsy about asserting the one eternal and uncaused reality is a omnipresent and benevolent Creator?

If the magic man is omnipresent, why are you always saying people have to seek him out? If he has a benevolent nature, why are (in your words) religio-sceptics going to be disadvantaged in the alleged afterlife and left to stay in their graves simply for using their noggins and correctly appraising the scant evidence for a magic man and coming to the conclusion that he doesn't exist? Why is it the case that the universe appears to be generally hostile to life and benevolence is apparent only in how biological organisms like ourselves (sometimes) treat each other?

Quite the contrary the universe appears to be "fined tuned" for life and many cosmetologists find this to be the case and again you appear not able to intelligently respond to the question asked as you evade same with your redundant sarcastic "magic man" questions. Why do you appear so utterly forgetful that I have said many times that it is FAITH that is essential to transfer the seat of ones identity from the physical world to the spiritual world?

Those questions were rhetorical only. Please don't post any UB passages. I don't want to get a headache.

Perhaps your headache comes from your atheist ego which apparently will not allow you to rationally and intelligently respond to my questions due to your overwhelming contempt for all things spiritual because you can't see God with the physical senses? So let me ask you, lordclarence, have you ever seen a thought? Why then do you expect to see the thoughts of a God that is eternal, immortal and a invisible creative spirit except in the inner world of MIND association?



[Edited 9/8/2017 11:54:28 AM ]

9/9/2017 6:15:52 AMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

rey2140
Over 1,000 Posts (1,000)
Sullivan, OH
48, joined Sep. 2013


Quote from Yasureoktoo:
As I said, "I Believe" I will stop for the next stop sign, but I can assure you, I will not pray to it.

Please explain what this supposed system consists of.

There is absolutely no system in atheism. None whatsoever. The word would not even exist if it were not for people inventing Gods.


You show me absolute proof of the nonexistence of a God. There is 0. There is 0 proof of a God.
The system of belief is incorporated in the scientific evidence presented for the "claims" to prove/disprove. In other words, science is not advanced enough to fully prove/disprove the existence/nonexistence of a God. Therefore it is a belief system because there is a pattern of thought that is accepted. Albeit, it is rooted in the scientific world.
The word athiest is a modern word to update the word agnostic. Science has proved that the creation of the universe is possible to explain and understand where the agnostic claims that it cannot be known. And you are probably right in saying that if people didn't invent Gods, the word atheist wouldn't exist

9/9/2017 8:50:37 AMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 
Yasureoktoo
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (23,136)
Seattle, WA
62, joined Dec. 2014


Quote from rey2140:
You show me absolute proof of the nonexistence of a God.


There is absolutely no proof, of the nonexistence of unicorns also.

9/9/2017 8:53:13 AMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

olderthandirt20
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,733)
Waldron, AR
71, joined Jul. 2014


The only evidence I have/need for the nonexistence of any/all gods is the lack of evidence for their existence .
Religions are like animals and plants, they are driven to survival of the species.
If religions had any real evidence for gods they would trot it out and display it for all in an effort to convert everyone.

9/9/2017 9:05:27 AMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

iyamwutiyam
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,830)
Middelfart
Denmark
48, joined Dec. 2011


Quote from rey2140:
You show me absolute proof of the nonexistence of a God. There is 0. There is 0 proof of a God....


One can disprove a god by definition by it's inherent contradictions and inconsistencies.

If one defines a god without inherent contradictions and inconsistencies means someone invented it.

An undefined god is completely made up and needs no disproof since it never had any veracity.

Both defined and undefined gods don't exist because they're made up. All figments of the imagination.



[Edited 9/9/2017 9:06:04 AM ]

9/10/2017 4:37:31 AMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 
lordclarence
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
59, joined Mar. 2013


.
Quote from kb2222:
*
Quote from lordclarence:
.
Quote from kb2222:
What's flimsy about asserting the universe did not create itself?

Whoever says the universe did create itself? Or that it has a self as such? And why do theists see a pre-existent and totally self-sufficient (without a universe to live in) magic man as a good answer to this hypothetical question?

You must have a comprehension problem for you have read a considerable portion of the UB and I assume that includes Paper 1 which reveals God as a Universal Spirit, the first source and center of all things and beings yet you sarcastically and with contempt refer to God as a "magic man." Why is that, lordclarence?

Because spirits, "Universal" or otherwise are a made up human idea, while language such as "first source and center" and "Conjoint Actor" belong to William Sadler's superfluous improvisatory theological noodlings. It's quite obvious to me from how the Abrahamic deity was assigned human characteristics of maleness, jealousy, anger, fatherliness, a limited form of benevolence (mainly towards his friends), and the ability to wave his hand, say the word "Be" and it is (as per the Quran), that what is basically being described is a souped-up magic man. Far from showing contempt for the entity, I'm just stripping away the artifice and according proper respect by using this demystifying term.

And you appear to be ignorant that the Big Bang Theory does indeed postulate that the universe somehow created itself, does it not?

We've discussed the Big Bang recently on other threads. You seem to be ignorant of the fact that the theory only explains how the universe evolved from its early stages an instant after the Big Bang started to happen. The theory doesn't tell us that the universe was created from nothing, or "created itself" as you would have it.

What's flimsy about asserting you can't have an affect without a cause?

This axiom of William Craig's is okay for everyday observations of how things happen on a macro scale. But the creation of the universe (or its possible transformation from an unobservable prior state) wasn't an everyday occurrence, so may not have been subject to that rule, and at any rate throwing in an uncaused magic man doesn't seem like a good solution to the problem, if there is a problem. If anything, it just adds further problems. How did the magic man acquire his suspiciously human characteristics if he didn't spend millions of years evolving from earlier species of hairy primate like we did in an environment that also took billions of years to evolve? A better solution to my mind is to cut out the middleman and make the universe the uncaused element, because at least it started out simple. Human level intelligence and the brains that produce it appears to be a result of the creation and evolution of the universe, not a cause.

Why is it the case that the universe appears to be generally hostile to life and benevolence is apparent only in how biological organisms like ourselves (sometimes) treat each other?

Quite the contrary the universe appears to be "fined tuned" for life and many cosmetologists find this to be the case and again

One possible answer to the fine tuning argument is that there exists an infinite multiverse, with each individual universe having its own set of physical constants. The multiverse encompasses all possible universes, so that there's bound to exist that rare universe possessing the conditions amenable to intelligent life, and therefore it's a 100% dead certainty that only in such a universe will there be beings like us sat gazing at computer screens talking about it. Thus, the argument from incredulity at the fine tuning of our own universe and the unlikeliness of conditions congenial to life arising by chance are then like a puddle marveling at how well it fits its hole.

Why do you appear so utterly forgetful that I have said many times that it is FAITH that is essential to transfer the seat of ones identity from the physical world to the spiritual world?

Indeed, we've discussed the UB's clunky bureaucratized version of Christian annihilationism on a recent thread somewhere. The way the felon was charged and sentenced by faceless functionaries on other planets apparently without a formal trial reminded me of poor old Josef K's experience in Franz Kafka's novel, The Trial. I was unimpressed.

Those questions were rhetorical only. Please don't post any UB passages. I don't want to get a headache.

So let me ask you, lordclarence, have you ever seen a thought? Why then do you expect to see the thoughts of a God that is eternal, immortal and a invisible creative spirit except in the inner world of MIND association?

I've had lots of thoughts. I can also read the thoughts of both people and animals by their body language and behaviours. I don't need to see a thought to know that thought exist. As for God/s, whose thoughts are usually represented in human written work, all I see there are the thoughts of the authors projected onto almost certainly fictional characters. I would only expect to witness God/s speaking for themselves if they were real.

9/10/2017 9:55:30 AMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,366)
Jacksonville, FL
77, joined Apr. 2011


Not going to waste anymore of my time reading and responding to your overwhelming atheist sarcastic contempt for all things spiritual because you can't perceive this universal creative spirit that urges man to perfection with your eyes, Clarence. To you human life is just a product of evolution in an unknown or not understood process of life springing forth somehow from inanimate matter with no purpose or destiny other than adaptation and survival ending in death of the individual having "no more value or importance" (as you have previously said) than that of a "tapeworm." And if that's what your ego driven materialistic mind desires to look upon life as consisting - and that makes you feel smarter, wiser and superior to those who believe differently, then so be it for its clear you are truly spiritually dead as a matter of choice.



[Edited 9/10/2017 9:57:47 AM ]

9/10/2017 10:08:52 AMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 
lordclarence
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
59, joined Mar. 2013


.
Quote from kb2222:
Not going to waste anymore of my time reading and responding to your overwhelming atheist sarcastic contempt for all things spiritual because you can't perceive this universal creative spirit with your eyes, Clarence. To you human life is just a product of evolution in an unknown or not understood process of life springing forth somehow from inanimate matter with no purpose or destiny other than adaptation and survival ending in death of the individual having "no more value or importance" (as you have previously said) than that of a "tapeworm." And if that's what your ego driven materialistic mind desires to look upon life as consisting - and that makes you feel smarter, wiser and superior to those who believe differently, then so be it for its clear you are truly spiritually dead as a matter of choice.

I never said tapeworms were of more value or importance than humans. Join Lud in the theists who lie all the time naughty corner. The mechanical and repetitive way you repeat the same mindless and false points over and over again however many times they are addressed is evidence enough to convince me that you are dead from the neck upwards, whether by choice or natural inclination. So be that too.

9/10/2017 10:40:46 AMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,366)
Jacksonville, FL
77, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from lordclarence:
I never said tapeworms were of more value or importance than humans.

That's right you said tapeworms are of "no" more value or importance than humans. And you said this because you believe all life is the product of a mechanistic evolution ending in death so don't lie about it.

Join Lud in the theists who lie all the time naughty corner. The mechanical and repetitive way you repeat the same mindless and false points over and over again however many times they are addressed is evidence enough to convince me that you are dead from the neck upwards, whether by choice or natural inclination. So be that too.



You are the master of mechanical and repetitive atheist sarcastic contempt for all things spiritual and you can't explain how the universe came to exist nor can you explain how its possible for the billions of DNA info to form to create the first living cell. In short, you can't explain why life or the universe exists at all but you are so smart you are "certain" that there is no Creator-God as you haven't seen him with your eyes.

9/10/2017 11:51:21 AMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 
lordclarence
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
59, joined Mar. 2013


Tell us why you think your magic man is a good answer to the question of why the universe and self-replicating chemical systems capable of Darwinian evolution (life) exists. Don't forget to explain how the magic man is exempt from needing an explanation for his own existence and complexity, if that's your position. No cosmic word salad please. Keep it simple.



[Edited 9/10/2017 11:53:00 AM ]

9/10/2017 12:08:46 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,366)
Jacksonville, FL
77, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from lordclarence:
Tell us why you think your magic man is a good answer to the question of why the universe and self-replicating chemical systems capable of Darwinian evolution (life) exists. Don't forget to explain how the magic man is exempt from needing an explanation for his own existence and complexity, if that's your position. No cosmic word salad please. Keep it simple.

Absent any refutation on your part I take it you are admitting you made the tapeworm statement as I said and for the reason I stated? And I take it you can't refute the balance of my post? That being the case I see no reason to respond to your redundant nebulous questions that seek to evade your lack of intelligent rebuttal to what I previously said.

However, as to your sarcastic inquiry as to why God who you call the "magic man" is "exempt from needing an explanation for his own existence" I offer the following excerpt from the UB:

1:2.1 (23.4) God is primal reality in the spirit world; God is the source of truth in the mind spheres; God overshadows all throughout the material realms. To all created intelligences God is a personality, and to the universe of universes he is the First Source and Center of eternal reality. God is neither manlike nor machinelike. The First Father is universal spirit, eternal truth, infinite reality, and father personality.

1:2.2 (23.5) The eternal God is infinitely more than reality idealized or the universe personalized. God is not simply the supreme desire of man, the mortal quest objectified. Neither is God merely a concept, the power-potential of righteousness. The Universal Father is not a synonym for nature, neither is he natural law personified. God is a transcendent reality, not merely man’s traditional concept of supreme values. God is not a psychological focalization of spiritual meanings, neither is he “the noblest work of man.” God may be any or all of these concepts in the minds of men, but he is more. He is a saving person and a loving Father to all who enjoy spiritual peace on earth, and who crave to experience personality survival in death.

9/10/2017 12:10:31 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 
Yasureoktoo
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (23,136)
Seattle, WA
62, joined Dec. 2014


Quote from kb2222:
Not going to waste anymore of my time reading and responding to your overwhelming atheist sarcastic contempt for all things spiritual because you can't perceive this universal creative spirit that urges man to perfection with your eyes, Clarence. To you human life is just a product of evolution in an unknown or not understood process of life springing forth somehow from inanimate matter with no purpose or destiny other than adaptation and survival ending in death of the individual having "no more value or importance" (as you have previously said) than that of a "tapeworm." And if that's what your ego driven materialistic mind desires to look upon life as consisting - and that makes you feel smarter, wiser and superior to those who believe differently, then so be it for its clear you are truly spiritually dead as a matter of choice.


I suggest you "Run", not walk, to your nearest shrink.

In the late 60's, early 70's, parents used to send their kids to "de-programers", to release them of the mind control cults.

9/10/2017 12:20:23 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 
lordclarence
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
59, joined Mar. 2013


.
Quote from kb2222:
1:2.1 (23.4) God is primal reality in the spirit world; God is the source of truth in the mind spheres; God overshadows all throughout the material realms. To all created intelligences God is a personality, and to the universe of universes he is the First Source and Center of eternal reality. God is neither manlike nor machinelike. The First Father is universal spirit, eternal truth, infinite reality, and father personality.

1:2.2 (23.5) The eternal God is infinitely more than reality idealized or the universe personalized. God is not simply the supreme desire of man, the mortal quest objectified. Neither is God merely a concept, the power-potential of righteousness. The Universal Father is not a synonym for nature, neither is he natural law personified. God is a transcendent reality, not merely man’s traditional concept of supreme values. God is not a psychological focalization of spiritual meanings, neither is he “the noblest work of man.” God may be any or all of these concepts in the minds of men, but he is more. He is a saving person and a loving Father to all who enjoy spiritual peace on earth, and who crave to experience personality survival in death.


                                             

I requested NO cosmic word salad.

9/10/2017 12:30:07 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,366)
Jacksonville, FL
77, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from lordclarence:
I requested NO cosmic word salad.

Oh, too bad. What the F*ck don't you understand in the UB quote? And why have you not answered the questions I asked?

9/10/2017 12:31:54 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,366)
Jacksonville, FL
77, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from Yasureoktoo:
I suggest you "Run", not walk, to your nearest shrink.

In the late 60's, early 70's, parents used to send their kids to "de-programers", to release them of the mind control cults.

I suggest if you have a brain that you use it and intelligently state what your disagreement is with what I said.

9/10/2017 3:56:11 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (36,123)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008
online now!


The real craziness is the denial of the existence of God.

9/10/2017 4:05:21 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 
lordclarence
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
59, joined Mar. 2013


Quote from ludlowlowell:
The real craziness is the denial of the existence of God.

Why is denial of the existence of gods any more crazy that denying the existence of unicorns, fairies, pixies or flying pink elephants?

9/10/2017 4:24:30 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 
2times2many
Over 2,000 Posts (3,368)
Greenwood Lake, NY
32, joined Jan. 2014


People have no clue that they have no clue

9/10/2017 4:30:31 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 
lordclarence
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
59, joined Mar. 2013


Are you talking about yourself?

9/10/2017 4:50:46 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

athleticman39
Las Vegas, NV
42, joined Sep. 2014


Quote from kb2222:
Not going to waste anymore of my time reading and responding to your overwhelming atheist sarcastic contempt for all things spiritual because you can't perceive this universal creative spirit that urges man to perfection with your eyes, Clarence. To you human life is just a product of evolution in an unknown or not understood process of life springing forth somehow from inanimate matter with no purpose or destiny other than adaptation and survival ending in death of the individual having "no more value or importance" (as you have previously said) than that of a "tapeworm." And if that's what your ego driven materialistic mind desires to look upon life as consisting - and that makes you feel smarter, wiser and superior to those who believe differently, then so be it for its clear you are truly spiritually dead as a matter of choice.
. Hello. Is it your position that Evolution isn't a fact? There is more evidence for evolution than there is for the properties of elecricity or gravity. Are you familiar with germ theory? Why do you think antibiotics become ineffective? My definition of egocentricity is people who rely on faith to rationalize their unsubstantiated and misguided claims about their belief system. If there was empirical evidence for your belief you wouldn't need faith. Faith is pretending to know something you don't know.

9/10/2017 5:04:23 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

athleticman39
Las Vegas, NV
42, joined Sep. 2014


Quote from kb2222:
Absent any refutation on your part I take it you are admitting you made the tapeworm statement as I said and for the reason I stated? And I take it you can't refute the balance of my post? That being the case I see no reason to respond to your redundant nebulous questions that seek to evade your lack of intelligent rebuttal to what I previously said.

However, as to your sarcastic inquiry as to why God who you call the "magic man" is "exempt from needing an explanation for his own existence" I offer the following excerpt from the UB:

1:2.1 (23.4) God is primal reality in the spirit world; God is the source of truth in the mind spheres; God overshadows all throughout the material realms. To all created intelligences God is a personality, and to the universe of universes he is the First Source and Center of eternal reality. God is neither manlike nor machinelike. The First Father is universal spirit, eternal truth, infinite reality, and father personality.

1:2.2 (23.5) The eternal God is infinitely more than reality idealized or the universe personalized. God is not simply the supreme desire of man, the al quest objectified. Neither is God merely a concept, the power-potential of righteousness. The Universal Father is not a synonym for nature, neither is he natural law personified. God is a transcendent reality, not merely man’s traditional concept of supreme values. God is not a psychological focalization of spiritual meanings, neither is he “the noblest work of man.” God may be any or all of these concepts in the minds of men, but he is more. He is a saving person and a loving Father to all who enjoy spiritual peace on earth, and who crave to experience personality survival in death.
Nice screed! You have zero evidence for any of these assertions. There is smoking gun evidence for evolution . Telomeric fusion in Human chromosome # 2 . You can see the telomeric fusion where the centromeres are in this chromosome. This explains what happened to the pair of chromosomes from 24 pairs in a chimpanzee to 23 pairs in humans. Have you ever taken any courses is molecular biology? My guess would be no . I have much more to say on this if you have the courage to respond.

9/10/2017 5:09:39 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 
lordclarence
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
59, joined Mar. 2013


.
Quote from athleticman39:
. Hello. Is it your position that Evolution isn't a fact? There is more evidence for evolution than there is for the properties of elecricity or gravity. Are you familiar with germ theory? Why do you think antibiotics become ineffective? My definition of egocentricity is people who rely on faith to rationalize their unsubstantiated and misguided claims about their belief system. If there was empirical evidence for your belief you wouldn't need faith. Faith is pretending to know something you don't know.

Urantia enthusiasts embrace a modified version of evolution whereby divinely appointed Oompa loompas ("Life Carriers" according to UB jargon) long ago planted life on the earth and other allegedly inhabited planets. Perhaps believable for persons whose age and religious biases render them most susceptible to this religious ideology, but otherwise not believable.

I endorse your opinions on faith. Well stated.

9/10/2017 5:13:27 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

athleticman39
Las Vegas, NV
42, joined Sep. 2014


Quote from lordclarence:
.
Quote from athleticman39:
. Hello. Is it your position that Evolution isn't a fact? There is more evidence for evolution than there is for the properties of elecricity or gravity. Are you familiar with germ theory? Why do you think antibiotics become ineffective? My definition of egocentricity is people who rely on faith to rationalize their unsubstantiated and misguided claims about their belief system. If there was empirical evidence for your belief you wouldn't need faith. Faith is pretending to know something you don't know.

Urantia enthusiasts embrace a modified version of evolution whereby divinely appointed Oompa loompas ("Life Carriers" according to UB jargon) long ago planted life on the earth and other allegedly inhabited planets. Perhaps believable for persons whose age and religious biases render them most susceptible to this religious ideology, but otherwise not believable.

I endorse your opinions on faith. Well stated.
You as well mate! You are spot on! It is exhausting having conversations with scientifically ignorant superstitious people.

9/10/2017 5:31:34 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,366)
Jacksonville, FL
77, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from athleticman39:
You as well mate! You are spot on! It is exhausting having conversations with scientifically ignorant superstitious people.

Why are you complaining about something that hasn't taken place? Yes, I believe evolution is a fact but I haven't had any discussion with you about it and if you can explain how the universe came to exist and how its possible for billions of DNA info to form to create the first living cell I would really like to hear it.

9/10/2017 5:39:38 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 
lordclarence
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
59, joined Mar. 2013


.
Quote from kb2222:
Why are you complaining about something that hasn't taken place? Yes, I believe evolution is a fact but I haven't had any discussion with you about it and if you can explain how the universe came to exist and how its possible for billions of DNA info to form to create the first living cell I would really like to hear it.

How did your Urantiafied magical being create the universe and DNA? Please give us your point by point explanation. My recollection is that the UB never even mentions DNA - which is contrary to what one would expect if the book was really written by a person or persons who have special knowledge of human biology.

9/10/2017 5:41:44 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

athleticman39
Las Vegas, NV
42, joined Sep. 2014


Quote from kb2222:
Absent any refutation on your part I take it onu are admitting you made the tapeworm statement as I said and for the reason I stated? And I take it you can't refute the balance of my post? That being the case I see no reason to respond to your redundant nebulous questions that seek to evade your lack of intelligent rebuttal to what I previously said.

However, as to your sarcastic inquiry as to why God who you call the "magic man" is "exempt from needing an explanation for his own existence" I offer the following excerpt from the UB:

1:2.1 (23.4) God is primal reality in the spirit world; God is the source of truth in the mind spheres; God overshadows all throughout the material realms. To all created intelligences God is a personality, and to the universe of universes he is the First Source and Center of eternal reality. God is neither manlike nor machinelike. The First Father is universal spirit, eternal truth, infinite reality, and father personality.

1:2.2 (23.5) The eternal God is infinitely more than reality idealized or the universe personalized. God is not simply the supreme desire of man, the mortal quest objectified. Neither is God merely a concept, the power-potential of righteousness. The Universal Father is not a synonym for nature, neither is he natural law personified. God is a transcendent reality, not merely man’s traditional concept of supreme values. God is not a psychological focalization of spiritual meanings, neither is he “the noblest work of man.” God may be any or all of these concepts in the minds of men, but he is more. He is a saving person and a loving Father to all who enjoy spiritual peace on earth, and who crave to experience personality survival in death.
Your " loving God" appears to be completely disinterested in the plights of those affected by Hurricane Irma .He also seems to be too busy to care about the 6 million babies that die every year under the age of 5 due to starvation and disease. When people like you point to a " Loving God" because he healed the eczema on their elbow , or got their Aunt Ida her mortgage refinanced just before her house was foreclosed is, the reason they brag about his " loving nature". Meanwhile the natural disasters that happen, and millions of dying babies that happen every year happen because their God is "mysterious". This is how you theists play tennis without the net. Proclaiming " this God " that watches these things happen to be loving is disturbing, and lacks any empathy whatsoever to those afflicted.

9/10/2017 5:44:40 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,366)
Jacksonville, FL
77, joined Apr. 2011


*@ lordclarence

Quote from kb2222:
Oh, too bad. What the F*ck don't you understand in the UB quote? And why have you not answered the questions I asked?


To you human life is just a product of evolution in an unknown or not understood process of life springing forth somehow from inanimate matter with no purpose or destiny other than adaptation and survival ending in death of the individual having "no more value or importance" (as you have previously said) than that of a "tapeworm." And if that's what your ego driven materialistic mind desires to look upon life as consisting - and that makes you feel smarter, wiser and superior to those who believe differently, then so be it for its clear you are truly spiritually dead as a matter of choice.

9/10/2017 5:53:35 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

athleticman39
Las Vegas, NV
42, joined Sep. 2014


Quote from kb2222:
Why are you complaining about something that hasn't taken place? Yes, I believe evolution is a fact but I haven't had any discussion with you about it and if you can explain how the universe came to exist and how its possible for billions of DNA info to form to create the first living cell I would really like to hear it.
The explanation for how life came about is called abiogenesis. There are theories about this, but we don't know everything yet. You posit that because abiogenesis hasn't totally been explained yet, that your invisible magical man in the sky caused it to happen. This is a God of the gaps. What happened before Planck Time? I don't know, God did it, more accurately my God. Based on your logic, for something so complex to happen to need a creator, your God would need a creator. Who made your God? God 2,who made that God, God# 3? This doesn't answer the problem, it is just an intellectually weak way to move the problem back one step. Theists like you posit that " your special God " always existed. Yet you have absolutely no evidence of this apart from your misguided desire to have it be true. Why not present this evidence of your God to a panel of Nobel Laureates? You would win a Nobel Prize and be rich! You could spend this money to help the starving babies that die every year that" your loving God" doesn't do the slightest thing for.

9/10/2017 6:01:12 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,366)
Jacksonville, FL
77, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from athleticman39:
Your " loving God" appears to be completely disinterested in the plights of those affected by Hurricane Irma .He also seems to be too busy to care about the 6 million babies that die every year under the age of 5 due to starvation and disease. When people like you point to a " Loving God" because he healed the eczema on their elbow , or got their Aunt Ida her mortgage refinanced just before her house was foreclosed is, the reason they brag about his " loving nature". Meanwhile the natural disasters that happen, and millions of dying babies that happen every year happen because their God is "mysterious". This is how you theists play tennis without the net. Proclaiming " this God " that watches these things happen to be loving is disturbing, and lacks any empathy whatsoever to those afflicted.

Please don't bother me with such crude assertions based on the teachings of organized Christianity. God didn't write the Bible and God didn't make this world perfect. Nor did he make humans perfect and immune to sickness and disease or accidents, earthquakes, hurricanes and wars that occur. God doesn't interfere with man's freewill or the natural occurrences of a planet such as this one but this fact doesn't mean God doesn't exist or that God is not a God of Love who calls man to strive for perfection.

9/10/2017 6:05:58 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

athleticman39
Las Vegas, NV
42, joined Sep. 2014


Quote from kb2222:
Please don't bother me with such crude assertions based on the teachings of organized Christianity. God didn't write the Bible and God didn't make this world perfect. Nor did he make humans perfect and immune to sickness and disease or accidents, earthquakes, hurricanes and wars that occur. God doesn't interfere with man's freewill or the natural occurrences of a planet such as this one but this fact doesn't mean God doesn't exist or that God is not a God of Love who calls man to strive for perfection.
Once again , please site peer reviewed documents and the methodology and types of statistical analysis you utilized to prove these assertions.

9/10/2017 6:11:39 PMThe ONLY Evidence for Atheism 

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,366)
Jacksonville, FL
77, joined Apr. 2011


*Quote from kb2222:
Why are you complaining about something that hasn't taken place? Yes, I believe evolution is a fact but I haven't had any discussion with you about it and if you can explain how the universe came to exist and how its possible for billions of DNA info to form to create the first living cell I would really like to hear it.

Quote from athleticman39:
The explanation for how life came about is called abiogenesis. There are theories about this, but we don't know everything yet. You posit that because abiogenesis hasn't totally been explained yet, that your invisible magical man in the sky caused it to happen. This is a God of the gaps. What happened before Planck Time? I don't know, God did it, more accurately my God. Based on your logic, for something so complex to happen to need a creator, your God would need a creator. Who made your God? God 2,who made that God, God# 3? This doesn't answer the problem, it is just an intellectually weak way to move the problem back one step. Theists like you posit that " your special God " always existed. Yet you have absolutely no evidence of this apart from your misguided desire to have it be true. Why not present this evidence of your God to a panel of Nobel Laureates? You would win a Nobel Prize and be rich! You could spend this money to help the starving babies that die every year that" your loving God" doesn't do the slightest thing for.

Why do you smart-ass atheists/agnostics keep calling for evidence of the existence of God when its widely accepted that The existence of God can neither be proved or disproved?

Cutting through your rant the fact is you can't explain how the universe came to exist nor can you explain how its possible for billions of DNA info to form to create the first living cell, right? But you believe you are so smart you are "certain" that God doesn't exist because you can't perceive him, isn't this right smart guy?