64, joined Oct. 2007
Getting back to Connecting the Dots Illustration & the reality of people conscious & existing in the place called the abode of the dead or Sheol or Hades or Hell or the place below or under the earth.
There is no "connecting the dots" concept in the Scriptures. Nowhere. No how.
The only reason someone would use this "connecting the dots" concept is to connect verses in the Bible that have no connection.
There is no "hell" in the Scriptures. There is no Ancient term that defines "hell" as an English word. Sheol/Hades is not defined as a place of punishment. "Gehenna" was added later to add fire to the "after-life."
And of the entire list that the quacker posted here, none of them say that there is any consciousness. We don't see them walking around and talking to each other in death.
The American Indians believed there was a consciousness after death.
The Egyptians believed there was a consciousness after death.
The Nordic, Greek, and Roman mythologies believed there was a consciousness after death.
But not the Orthodox Jews.
The "gates of death" (sheol) is merely the entrance to death.
It is clear that Jesus was declaring that death has no power to hold God's people captive. Its gates are not strong enough to overpower and keep imprisoned the church of God. The Lord has conquered death (Rom 8:2; Acts 2:24). And because “death no longer is master over Him” (Rom 6:9), it is no longer master over those who belong to Him.
CLV Ro 6:8 Now if we died together with Christ, we believe that we shall be living together with Him also,
9 having perceived that Christ, being roused from among the dead, is not longer dying. Death is lording it over Him not longer,
Clearly, he is wrong.
If we had overcome death, or even belonged to Him, then you would see people coming out of their graves. That only happens in the Walkling Dead TV shows and others like them.
Jesus had not yet determined who belongs to Him. You may claim you are His, but until you have been judged by Jesus, that will be an empty statement.
As such, the “gates of hell” or “gates of Hades” means the power of Hades.
Ahhhh... not really.
G4439 pule poo'-lay
apparently a primary word;
a gate, i.e. the leaf or wing of a folding entrance (literally or figuratively).
A gate is a gate. Apparently, it has no power. Nor does it represent power.
Wrong again quacker.
The gates of hell shall not prevail.
The bi-sexual king's English version is one of a very few that translates the word 'sheol/hades' as "hell."
CLV Mt 16:18 Now I, also, am saying to you that you are Peter, and on this rock will I be building My ecclesia, and the gates of the unseen shall not be prevailing against it.
Literally translated the word 'sheol' means "unseen." Perhaps the Ancients saw it as "a place we cannot see." It was translated to 'hades' because 'hades' is translated into English as "unseen." We do not know who translated it that way.
But just because the entrance to death is described as a "gate" is no reason to jump to the conclusion that there is some type of consciousness after death.
Our life after death begins when Jesus Resurrects us all...
CLV Jn 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the Resurrection and the Life. He who is believing in Me, even if he should be dying, shall be living.
26 And everyone who is living and believing in Me, should by no means be dying for the eon. Are you believing this?"
Woah there cowboy!
Did He say "everyone"?
Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth & was dead & behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen & I have the keys of hell & of death.
CLV Re 1:17 And when I perceived Him, I fall at His feet as dead. And He places His right hand on me, saying, "Do not fear! I am the First and the Last,
18 and the Living One: and I became dead, and lo! living am I for the eons of the eons. (Amen!) And I have the keys of death and of the unseen.
What they don't tell you is that the phrase "eons of the eons" is plural. The KJV translates it as "ever more." How can "ever more" have a plural?
CLV Ps 100:2 Serve Yahweh with rejoicing! Come to His presence with jubilant song!
3 Know that Yahweh, He is Elohim; He it is Who has made us, and we are His. His people are we and the flock of His pasture.
4 Enter His gateways with acclamation! His courts with praise! Acclaim Him! Bless His Name!
Taken in context, this phrase is used of those entering the gates of the Millennial Kingdom, not death.
Job 33:30 To bring back his soul from the pit, to be enlightened with the light of the living.
Either way it is a one-way journey—they are prison gates
Wait. Didn't he say this was a one-way trip? I guess he forgot about the Resurrection.
Manassah_1:13 (Prayer of Manassah, Apocrypha) wherefore, I humbly beseech thee, forgive me, O Lord, forgive me, and destroy me not with mine iniquities. Be not angry with me for ever, by reserving evil for me; neither condemn me to the lower parts of the earth. For thou art the God, even the God of them that repent.
I see he has regressed to the Apocrypha. That is a list of books that are NOT in the Bible. And for good reason.
CLV Jn 5:39 "Search the scriptures, for in them you are supposing you have life eonian, and those are they which are testifying concerning Me,
40 and not willing are you to come to Me that you may have life.
Clement is mentioned in the writings of Ireneaus (early 2nd century church father) as having been the 3rd bishop of Rome, having been appointed by Linus (2nd bishop), who in turn had been appointed by Paul.
Now this quack is pulling a ludlow. The writings of the early church fathers have been tampered with. That's mostly the reason why many scholars don't use them.
All in all, very poor research.
CLV Pr 14:12 There is a way that seems straight before a man, Yet the ways of death are the end of it.
And there is no "everlasting" gospel. No matter who tells you there is.
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64, joined Oct. 2007
|St Clement of Rome (fl. AD c.96). Clement wrote letters that were initially accepted into but later rejected from the canon of Christian scripture. They deal largely with the great dissent then current within the Church, and suggest that there was no established bishopric at Rome during his lifetime. (Ironically his name was later included in lists of early popes, though different lists have him as first, second, third or fourth in line from Peter). According to acta dating from the 4th century, Clement was banished from Rome to the Chersonesus during the reign of Emperor Trajan, and set to work in a stone quarry. He was allegedly killed by being tied to an anchor and thrown from a boat into the Black Sea.
Clement used the terms bishop and presbyter interchangeably - a reminder that bishops had not separated off as a higher office at this time. Clement seems to have been as credulous as others of his age (he was convinced in the reality of the phoenix). The stained glass window on the right shows him along with his fabulous phoenix. Much of his surviving work is now known to be forged, and little is known of his life or beliefs.
Again, the books were written (or at least attributed to him) by Clement were not allowed in the Bible.
There was no "pope" until about 900 AD and no Catholic church until about 1054 AD.